Comments on: Church Drama or Christ Dogma? http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/church-drama-or-christ-dogma/ for those who see the need for spiritual revolution instead of religious reformation. Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:26:01 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: David D. Flowers http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/church-drama-or-christ-dogma/#comment-312 David D. Flowers Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:58:41 +0000 http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-312 Thanks for sharing Joel! I am encouraged by all those the Lord is leading out religion and into a natural vibrant faith of Christ that is burden free. Blessings in Christ! Thanks for sharing Joel! I am encouraged by all those the Lord is leading out religion and into a natural vibrant faith of Christ that is burden free. Blessings in Christ!

]]> By: Joel http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/church-drama-or-christ-dogma/#comment-309 Joel Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:18:03 +0000 http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-309 David, Jars of Clay have a thought provoking lyric in regards to this topic, "Can a king still be a king weighed down?" I have found that most who claim Christianity spend the lion's share of their energy defending their religious habits and church structures and the topic of Christ seldom comes up. I know I did this for years when I was lock, stock, and barrel for the IC. The Lord is now taking me on a very focused journey of stripping away all that was weighing down my walk with him and leading me to a place where it is all about Him. I am not very close but I am very thirsty. Thank you for this site and pieces like this. David,

Jars of Clay have a thought provoking lyric in regards to this topic, “Can a king still be a king weighed down?” I have found that most who claim Christianity spend the lion’s share of their energy defending their religious habits and church structures and the topic of Christ seldom comes up. I know I did this for years when I was lock, stock, and barrel for the IC. The Lord is now taking me on a very focused journey of stripping away all that was weighing down my walk with him and leading me to a place where it is all about Him. I am not very close but I am very thirsty. Thank you for this site and pieces like this.

]]> By: David D. Flowers http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/church-drama-or-christ-dogma/#comment-104 David D. Flowers Mon, 11 Aug 2008 03:24:01 +0000 http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-104 Pete, I don't see that Viola or Barna have "slammed" anyone. The issue is the adoption of a "Gentile" structure forced upon the "organic" living Body of Christ. Whether or not the system works from time to time is irrelevant and should be understood as a worldly pragmatic perspective. Overall, there are major problems with popular Christianity that should cause us to rethink the New Testament. The answers will not come by us looking to outward forms of practice and attempting to give the church a facelift... but by going further to the heart of the matter. Does our faith and church practice reflect the Person and work (i.e. teachings) of Christ? Quickly dismissing this question may mean our demise. I don't infer that the church can be crushed by her enemy... I do mean to say that our influence in this generation (i.e. reflecting Christ to the world), right here and right now, can indeed be suppressed. I encourage you to read "Pagan Christianity?" and "Reimagining Church" before you make assumptions and make up your mind about anything. Read the books and then we can discuss them. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. Pete,

I don’t see that Viola or Barna have “slammed” anyone. The issue is the adoption of a “Gentile” structure forced upon the “organic” living Body of Christ. Whether or not the system works from time to time is irrelevant and should be understood as a worldly pragmatic perspective.

Overall, there are major problems with popular Christianity that should cause us to rethink the New Testament. The answers will not come by us looking to outward forms of practice and attempting to give the church a facelift… but by going further to the heart of the matter. Does our faith and church practice reflect the Person and work (i.e. teachings) of Christ? Quickly dismissing this question may mean our demise. I don’t infer that the church can be crushed by her enemy… I do mean to say that our influence in this generation (i.e. reflecting Christ to the world), right here and right now, can indeed be suppressed.

I encourage you to read “Pagan Christianity?” and “Reimagining Church” before you make assumptions and make up your mind about anything. Read the books and then we can discuss them. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

]]> By: pete z. http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/church-drama-or-christ-dogma/#comment-103 pete z. Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:36:17 +0000 http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-103 if this book is saying that the church needs to not have institutional structures or organized leadership, it is not only wrong, but impossible. the impulse to throw out the old can be good. i am the first to admit that owning real estate really changed the church in bad ways. But if a group of people are successful in forming a transformational community, that community will become large enough to need physical space, trained leadership, some form of dealing with controversy. I am no fan of traditional church per se. i dig on the Quaker model a lot, especcially the semi programmed ones. as for certain things being "pagan"? whatever. how cute to call everything not pauline or hebrew pagan when the better term would be greek or roman. when we hopefully start a faith community in NC, we will not be doing it the "right" way and churches unlike being wrong. we will be doing it in a way that works for us. If a mainline, traditional church has real community and love, a prophetic voice in the community, and serves the least of these...while being liturgical and traditional..rock on. I won't be a member of it, unless it is to pay the bills. But I refuse to slam so many who are trying and claim I hear god better if this book is saying that the church needs to not have institutional structures or organized leadership, it is not only wrong, but impossible. the impulse to throw out the old can be good. i am the first to admit that owning real estate really changed the church in bad ways. But if a group of people are successful in forming a transformational community, that community will become large enough to need physical space, trained leadership, some form of dealing with controversy. I am no fan of traditional church per se. i dig on the Quaker model a lot, especcially the semi programmed ones. as for certain things being “pagan”? whatever. how cute to call everything not pauline or hebrew pagan when the better term would be greek or roman. when we hopefully start a faith community in NC, we will not be doing it the “right” way and churches unlike being wrong. we will be doing it in a way that works for us. If a mainline, traditional church has real community and love, a prophetic voice in the community, and serves the least of these…while being liturgical and traditional..rock on. I won’t be a member of it, unless it is to pay the bills. But I refuse to slam so many who are trying and claim I hear god better

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